Interview with Steve Stoute by Rap Genius Lyrics
What inspired you to write "The Tanning of America?"
I felt like hip-hop culture was not getting its just due for what it has contributed to the growth of race relations in America, and how much it's changed the world. I felt like, I didn't want this era not to be memorialized for its contributions to society. And when I started speaking to my peers about what I wanted to do, they all were very supportive. They were like, "Our story needs to be told," and that's what took me on the journey to write the book.
View the trailer for the VH1 Tanning of America Rock Doc.
During the 80s, Rap was a revolution that allowed Americans to tell their story. What specific songs from this era were, and continue to be, sources of personal inspiration for you?
Definitely Rakim - "Check Out My Melody." If you just listen to the rap albums that came out in the summer of '88 - forget it. The summer of '88 is one of the greatest musical eras ever, and it just happened to be that era of rap. If you just look at the releases of that year, you would see the amount of talent, and everything that came out in the songs that was super important and relevant - whether it be Rakim, Public Enemy, KRS-One. Eric B., Slick Rick, EPMD, Strictly Business, Big Daddy Kane, N.W.A., all came out the summer of '88. Crazy. Absolutely crazy.
What do you think are today's most important Tanning figures, driving contagious consumer behavior?
Obviously, I think that Jay Z and Sean Combs have been super important in driving contagious consumer behavior. From clothing lines to vodka to lifestyle to music and now owning a cable network, I think Puffy has always been pushing the envelope forward. And Jay Z, same thing, as an artist to building a multimedia empire with Roc Nation.
You've got guys - the younger guys coming up. I think Drake is a very important figure in Tanning - openly being Jewish and mixed-raced, yet bringing a new flavor and insight to rap music, and he's super credible. I think that stuff is also important.
Do you think Nas and Jay Z have transformed rap? Who are main Tanning figures specifically in hip-hop today?
Well I think Jay Z and Nas have transformed rap along with others. I think Slick Rick was a big transformer of rap. Rakim obviously was a big transformer of rap. Public Enemy was as well. And I think Jay Z and Nas and Biggie and Tupac - I think those are guys who've just kept changing the voice of the art form, and grounding it with much more substance than flash.
Drake, discuss:
I think that Drake is just a guy that's really opening the conversation. First of all he sings and raps, and he's credible. That's a very hard thing to get done. The last person that had that kind of thing was probably Lauryn Hill - that can sing and rap equally well. I mean, I don't think he can sing like Lauryn Hill, but he can sing, hold a note, rap, and he's credible - that's the first thing. The second thing is that he's bringing a whole different voice to music that hasn't been there because of his religious beliefs - open religious beliefs, and his interracial parents, and he's from Toronto. I mean it does so much in opening up the conversation because of what his life story is – its different trials and tribulations.
By the way, very similar to Eminem, coming from a trailer park, and talking about a white kid growing up in a black world and trying to get in, and that's what the movie '8 Mile' was all about. And I think that when you can do those kinds of stories, credible guys who come from different places than where the art form typically comes from. The art form is typically coming up through the drug game, bad neighborhoods - either in LA, New York, or Atlanta, you know, Texas. But Eminem came from Detroit, and Drake came from Toronto, and the fact that they support some of those insights and experiences - they won't have them exactly the same as the guys who come from those other places, but their story was told equally as well. And when you get that, that's the credibility and the authenticity in their voice, and then you get a chance to open up the market because of these new stories, and you believe them. That's when rap is at its best - when it's really lockstep with culture and not making anything up.
I was speaking to a woman today at Harvard about Nas. I mean we're talking about - it's poetry. It never got its just due as poetry because some guys aren't poets they just rap over beats and people dance to it and it doesn't even matter. Then there are some guys who can paint portraits of exactly what's happening around them, and when you listen beyond the beat, and you listen to the words or you read the lyrics, you can't believe the intelligence level that these guys have. When people run around saying, "Oh, Jay Z is smart" or "this guy's smart," I mean, these guys have been smart for a long time. To write the things that they write you know they're super smart. But if you don't listen to what they write, you just listen to the beat or you watch the music video and just skim the surface of it, you would not understand the depth of the art and poetry and storytelling skills that these guys possess - that some of the great ones possess.
What do you think is Rap Genius' role in the Tanning of America?
Well Rap Genius' role in the Tanning of America is critical because rap - most people don't know what the words mean. It's always shifting because of the Ebonics and the changes in language. Without living in that environment it's hard to understand texture and context. And because of the platform that Rap Genius has, it allows people to really educate others - who like the beat, and kind of like the song, but really don't understand the substance of the song. Rap Genius allows people to understand the substance and that's another entry point. Because if you understand the substance, you might not even necessarily like the beat but you love the substance of the song, you like the poetic nature of it, you like the sentiment of the lyrics themselves. That's a very important thing, but because of dialect, beats, Ebonics, most of the time that gets missed. And that's the reason why Rap Genius is important because everyone can read the lyrics; it invites a larger audience to understand the point of view of the artist.
We've heard you believe in taking on racism with an offense rather than a defense. Can you elaborate on this concept? What is an example of an offensive?
I think 'The Tanning of America' is offense. I think when you start speaking about how music that was having all kinds of issues getting played and getting certain segments of time - you know, MTV Raps for one hour a day, and stations didn't want to play the music and all that other kind of stuff. And then to speak about how music and culture has brought people together. Not only as black and white people, but Indians and Asians and lesbians and gays - music brings people together and it takes the issue on in an offensive way, or the book does and my topic does, but it doesn't make it a problem. It's not like talking about Trayvon Martin and what happened in the legalities of Florida. It's more about finding what people share. It’s talking about what people have in common, and why they should be closely united, and why we’re going to go in the right direction, to me, that’s exactly where we are in society. But if I keep paying attention to and talking about the travesty that happened in the Trayvon Martin case and the stupid gun laws of Florida and make that the conversation, then I'm not helping drive the conversation in the right way. I think that we've made a lot of steps forward and I think that we need to celebrate those steps that we've made. That's what "The Tanning of America" speaks to. How a generation of kids has come together without letting their ethnicity be a determining factor on what they care about culturally and what they value culturally. To me it’s talking about the dilution of the impact of race on how people connect. I'm trying to dilute the impact by bringing up what people have in common.
Run DMC getting the single "Rock Box" to air on MTV was a huge step in cultures coming together. What would you see as the next big breakthrough step? What would the "Rock Box" of 2014 look like?
The "Rock Box" of 2014 is Obama in the White House, to be honest with you. That's what it is. When Run DMC went on MTV they were like the kings of rock. I mean, that was the name of the song. These black guys that couldn’t get on MTV at all, go on TV with a little white kid in the video with a rock guitar in the background, saying, “I'm the king of rock.” I mean, the audacity, the boldness, and the confidence of that. And then to get on MTV with that, to me, is no different from the President saying, "I'm going to run for the White House, I can get this done." I mean it's unprecedented territory and you confidently go into it with a style and swagger that just exudes that you belong.
I felt like hip-hop culture was not getting its just due for what it has contributed to the growth of race relations in America, and how much it's changed the world. I felt like, I didn't want this era not to be memorialized for its contributions to society. And when I started speaking to my peers about what I wanted to do, they all were very supportive. They were like, "Our story needs to be told," and that's what took me on the journey to write the book.
View the trailer for the VH1 Tanning of America Rock Doc.
During the 80s, Rap was a revolution that allowed Americans to tell their story. What specific songs from this era were, and continue to be, sources of personal inspiration for you?
Definitely Rakim - "Check Out My Melody." If you just listen to the rap albums that came out in the summer of '88 - forget it. The summer of '88 is one of the greatest musical eras ever, and it just happened to be that era of rap. If you just look at the releases of that year, you would see the amount of talent, and everything that came out in the songs that was super important and relevant - whether it be Rakim, Public Enemy, KRS-One. Eric B., Slick Rick, EPMD, Strictly Business, Big Daddy Kane, N.W.A., all came out the summer of '88. Crazy. Absolutely crazy.
What do you think are today's most important Tanning figures, driving contagious consumer behavior?
Obviously, I think that Jay Z and Sean Combs have been super important in driving contagious consumer behavior. From clothing lines to vodka to lifestyle to music and now owning a cable network, I think Puffy has always been pushing the envelope forward. And Jay Z, same thing, as an artist to building a multimedia empire with Roc Nation.
You've got guys - the younger guys coming up. I think Drake is a very important figure in Tanning - openly being Jewish and mixed-raced, yet bringing a new flavor and insight to rap music, and he's super credible. I think that stuff is also important.
Do you think Nas and Jay Z have transformed rap? Who are main Tanning figures specifically in hip-hop today?
Well I think Jay Z and Nas have transformed rap along with others. I think Slick Rick was a big transformer of rap. Rakim obviously was a big transformer of rap. Public Enemy was as well. And I think Jay Z and Nas and Biggie and Tupac - I think those are guys who've just kept changing the voice of the art form, and grounding it with much more substance than flash.
Drake, discuss:
I think that Drake is just a guy that's really opening the conversation. First of all he sings and raps, and he's credible. That's a very hard thing to get done. The last person that had that kind of thing was probably Lauryn Hill - that can sing and rap equally well. I mean, I don't think he can sing like Lauryn Hill, but he can sing, hold a note, rap, and he's credible - that's the first thing. The second thing is that he's bringing a whole different voice to music that hasn't been there because of his religious beliefs - open religious beliefs, and his interracial parents, and he's from Toronto. I mean it does so much in opening up the conversation because of what his life story is – its different trials and tribulations.
By the way, very similar to Eminem, coming from a trailer park, and talking about a white kid growing up in a black world and trying to get in, and that's what the movie '8 Mile' was all about. And I think that when you can do those kinds of stories, credible guys who come from different places than where the art form typically comes from. The art form is typically coming up through the drug game, bad neighborhoods - either in LA, New York, or Atlanta, you know, Texas. But Eminem came from Detroit, and Drake came from Toronto, and the fact that they support some of those insights and experiences - they won't have them exactly the same as the guys who come from those other places, but their story was told equally as well. And when you get that, that's the credibility and the authenticity in their voice, and then you get a chance to open up the market because of these new stories, and you believe them. That's when rap is at its best - when it's really lockstep with culture and not making anything up.
I was speaking to a woman today at Harvard about Nas. I mean we're talking about - it's poetry. It never got its just due as poetry because some guys aren't poets they just rap over beats and people dance to it and it doesn't even matter. Then there are some guys who can paint portraits of exactly what's happening around them, and when you listen beyond the beat, and you listen to the words or you read the lyrics, you can't believe the intelligence level that these guys have. When people run around saying, "Oh, Jay Z is smart" or "this guy's smart," I mean, these guys have been smart for a long time. To write the things that they write you know they're super smart. But if you don't listen to what they write, you just listen to the beat or you watch the music video and just skim the surface of it, you would not understand the depth of the art and poetry and storytelling skills that these guys possess - that some of the great ones possess.
What do you think is Rap Genius' role in the Tanning of America?
Well Rap Genius' role in the Tanning of America is critical because rap - most people don't know what the words mean. It's always shifting because of the Ebonics and the changes in language. Without living in that environment it's hard to understand texture and context. And because of the platform that Rap Genius has, it allows people to really educate others - who like the beat, and kind of like the song, but really don't understand the substance of the song. Rap Genius allows people to understand the substance and that's another entry point. Because if you understand the substance, you might not even necessarily like the beat but you love the substance of the song, you like the poetic nature of it, you like the sentiment of the lyrics themselves. That's a very important thing, but because of dialect, beats, Ebonics, most of the time that gets missed. And that's the reason why Rap Genius is important because everyone can read the lyrics; it invites a larger audience to understand the point of view of the artist.
We've heard you believe in taking on racism with an offense rather than a defense. Can you elaborate on this concept? What is an example of an offensive?
I think 'The Tanning of America' is offense. I think when you start speaking about how music that was having all kinds of issues getting played and getting certain segments of time - you know, MTV Raps for one hour a day, and stations didn't want to play the music and all that other kind of stuff. And then to speak about how music and culture has brought people together. Not only as black and white people, but Indians and Asians and lesbians and gays - music brings people together and it takes the issue on in an offensive way, or the book does and my topic does, but it doesn't make it a problem. It's not like talking about Trayvon Martin and what happened in the legalities of Florida. It's more about finding what people share. It’s talking about what people have in common, and why they should be closely united, and why we’re going to go in the right direction, to me, that’s exactly where we are in society. But if I keep paying attention to and talking about the travesty that happened in the Trayvon Martin case and the stupid gun laws of Florida and make that the conversation, then I'm not helping drive the conversation in the right way. I think that we've made a lot of steps forward and I think that we need to celebrate those steps that we've made. That's what "The Tanning of America" speaks to. How a generation of kids has come together without letting their ethnicity be a determining factor on what they care about culturally and what they value culturally. To me it’s talking about the dilution of the impact of race on how people connect. I'm trying to dilute the impact by bringing up what people have in common.
Run DMC getting the single "Rock Box" to air on MTV was a huge step in cultures coming together. What would you see as the next big breakthrough step? What would the "Rock Box" of 2014 look like?
The "Rock Box" of 2014 is Obama in the White House, to be honest with you. That's what it is. When Run DMC went on MTV they were like the kings of rock. I mean, that was the name of the song. These black guys that couldn’t get on MTV at all, go on TV with a little white kid in the video with a rock guitar in the background, saying, “I'm the king of rock.” I mean, the audacity, the boldness, and the confidence of that. And then to get on MTV with that, to me, is no different from the President saying, "I'm going to run for the White House, I can get this done." I mean it's unprecedented territory and you confidently go into it with a style and swagger that just exudes that you belong.