Cross-Examination of William Healy by Clarence Darrow Lyrics
Clarence Darrow: [What did you learn about the relationship between Leopold and Loeb?]
William Healy: As far as I can find out from the account given by the boys themselves and from their relatives, their association began at fifteen years of age. They just barely knew each other earlier, but that is the time they first came together. It is very clear from the study of the boys separately that each camе with peculiarities in their mеntal life. [...] Each arrived at these peculiarities by different routes; each supplemented the other's already constituted abnormal needs in a most unique way. And in regard to the association I think that the crime in its commission and in its background has features that are quite beyond anything in my experience or knowledge of the literature. There seems to have been so little normal motivation, the matter was so long planned, so unfeelingly carried out, that it represents nothing that I have ever seen or heard of before. [...] In the matter of the association, I have the boys' story, told separately, about an incredibly absurd childish compact that bound them. [...] For Loeb, he says, the association gave him the opportunity of getting someone to carry out his criminalistic imaginings and conscious ideas. In the case of Leopold, the direct cause of his entering into criminalistic acts was this particularly childish compact.
Robert Crowe: You are talking about a compact that you characterize as childish. Kindly tell us what that compact was.
William Healy: I am perfectly willing to tell it in chambers but it is not a matter that I think should be told here.
Robert Crowe: I insist that we know what that compact is so that we can form some opinion about it. [...] Tell it in court. The trial must be public, your Honor. I am not insisting that he talk loud enough for everybody to hear, but it ought to be told in the same way that we put the other evidence in.
[Judge Caverly, after a discussion with the attorneys at the bench, told William Healy to whisper his answers so that only the judge, the attorneys, and the stenographers could hear his words.]
William Healy: This compact, as was told to me separately by each of the boys, consisted in an agreement between them that Leopold, who has very definite homosexual tendencies was to have the privilege of - Do you want me to be very specific?
Robert Crowe: Absolutely, because this is important.
William Healy: - was to have the privilege of inserting his penis between Loeb's legs at special rates; at one time it was to be three times in two months, if they continued their criminalistic activities together. [...] Then they had some of their quarrels, and then it was once for each criminalistic deed.
Clarence Darrow: I do not suppose this should be taken in the presence of newspapermen, your Honor.
Judge Caverly: Gentlemen, will you go and sit down, you newspapermen! Take your seats. This should not be published.
Robert Crowe: What other act's, if any, did they tell you about? You say that there are other acts that they did rarely or seldom?
William Healy: Oh, they were just experimenting once or twice with each other.
Clarence Darrow: Tell what it was.
William Healy: They experimented with mouth perversions. [...] Leopold has had for many years a great deal of phantasy life surrounding sex activity. [...] He has phantasies of being with a man, and usually with Loeb himself. [...] He says he gets a thrill out of anticipating it. [...] Loeb would pretend to be drunk, then this fellow would undress him and he would almost rape him and would be furiously passionate. [...] With women he does not get that same thrill and passion.
Robert Crowe: That is what he tells you?
William Healy: Surely. [...] That is what he tells me. Loeb tells me himself [...] how he feigns sometimes to be drunk, in order that he should have his aid in carrying out his criminalistic ideas. That is what Leopold gets out of it, and that is what Loeb gets out of it. [...] When Leopold had this first experience with his penis between Loeb's legs. [...] He found it gave him more pleasure than anything else he had ever done. [...] Even in jail here, a look at Loeb's body or his touch upon his shoulder thrills him so, he says, immeasurably...
Robert Crowe: When Leopold began to plan with Loeb this murder, what was acting then, his intellect or his emotions?
William Healy: His intellect, but always accompanied by some emotional life, as it always is.
Robert Crowe: Which was in control, the intellect or the emotions, at the time they planned to steal the typewriter, so that they could write letters that could not be traced back to them?
William Healy: I think the intellect was the predominating thing there probably.
Robert Crowe: And when they rented the room in the Morrison Hotel, intellect was still walking in front?
William Healy: Yes.
Robert Crowe: And so on through all the details of this murder?
William Healy: Yes, sir.
William Healy: As far as I can find out from the account given by the boys themselves and from their relatives, their association began at fifteen years of age. They just barely knew each other earlier, but that is the time they first came together. It is very clear from the study of the boys separately that each camе with peculiarities in their mеntal life. [...] Each arrived at these peculiarities by different routes; each supplemented the other's already constituted abnormal needs in a most unique way. And in regard to the association I think that the crime in its commission and in its background has features that are quite beyond anything in my experience or knowledge of the literature. There seems to have been so little normal motivation, the matter was so long planned, so unfeelingly carried out, that it represents nothing that I have ever seen or heard of before. [...] In the matter of the association, I have the boys' story, told separately, about an incredibly absurd childish compact that bound them. [...] For Loeb, he says, the association gave him the opportunity of getting someone to carry out his criminalistic imaginings and conscious ideas. In the case of Leopold, the direct cause of his entering into criminalistic acts was this particularly childish compact.
Robert Crowe: You are talking about a compact that you characterize as childish. Kindly tell us what that compact was.
William Healy: I am perfectly willing to tell it in chambers but it is not a matter that I think should be told here.
Robert Crowe: I insist that we know what that compact is so that we can form some opinion about it. [...] Tell it in court. The trial must be public, your Honor. I am not insisting that he talk loud enough for everybody to hear, but it ought to be told in the same way that we put the other evidence in.
[Judge Caverly, after a discussion with the attorneys at the bench, told William Healy to whisper his answers so that only the judge, the attorneys, and the stenographers could hear his words.]
William Healy: This compact, as was told to me separately by each of the boys, consisted in an agreement between them that Leopold, who has very definite homosexual tendencies was to have the privilege of - Do you want me to be very specific?
Robert Crowe: Absolutely, because this is important.
William Healy: - was to have the privilege of inserting his penis between Loeb's legs at special rates; at one time it was to be three times in two months, if they continued their criminalistic activities together. [...] Then they had some of their quarrels, and then it was once for each criminalistic deed.
Clarence Darrow: I do not suppose this should be taken in the presence of newspapermen, your Honor.
Judge Caverly: Gentlemen, will you go and sit down, you newspapermen! Take your seats. This should not be published.
Robert Crowe: What other act's, if any, did they tell you about? You say that there are other acts that they did rarely or seldom?
William Healy: Oh, they were just experimenting once or twice with each other.
Clarence Darrow: Tell what it was.
William Healy: They experimented with mouth perversions. [...] Leopold has had for many years a great deal of phantasy life surrounding sex activity. [...] He has phantasies of being with a man, and usually with Loeb himself. [...] He says he gets a thrill out of anticipating it. [...] Loeb would pretend to be drunk, then this fellow would undress him and he would almost rape him and would be furiously passionate. [...] With women he does not get that same thrill and passion.
Robert Crowe: That is what he tells you?
William Healy: Surely. [...] That is what he tells me. Loeb tells me himself [...] how he feigns sometimes to be drunk, in order that he should have his aid in carrying out his criminalistic ideas. That is what Leopold gets out of it, and that is what Loeb gets out of it. [...] When Leopold had this first experience with his penis between Loeb's legs. [...] He found it gave him more pleasure than anything else he had ever done. [...] Even in jail here, a look at Loeb's body or his touch upon his shoulder thrills him so, he says, immeasurably...
Robert Crowe: When Leopold began to plan with Loeb this murder, what was acting then, his intellect or his emotions?
William Healy: His intellect, but always accompanied by some emotional life, as it always is.
Robert Crowe: Which was in control, the intellect or the emotions, at the time they planned to steal the typewriter, so that they could write letters that could not be traced back to them?
William Healy: I think the intellect was the predominating thing there probably.
Robert Crowe: And when they rented the room in the Morrison Hotel, intellect was still walking in front?
William Healy: Yes.
Robert Crowe: And so on through all the details of this murder?
William Healy: Yes, sir.